Please enjoy this transcript from my episode on Challenging Bro Culture and Other Tools.
In this episode of “Unbridled Expression with Kymberlee della Luce”, I talk about leaving Facebook for good, the film “The Social Network”, bro culture, classism, and creating cultural change with more awareness of the whole system.
I use a combination of AI and my own fingertips to to create these so the transcripts may contain a few typos, FYI. Enjoy!
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Kymberlee della Luce 0:03
[Into groove music, kind of driving] This is unbridled expression. And I’m your host, Kymberlee della Luce. Every Wednesday, we talk about art, culture, creativity, and whatever else we’re curious about. Thanks for listening. And if you like it, please do subscribe, and share. [Music fades]
Kymberlee della Luce 0:35
Hey, everyone, welcome to episode two of the new podcast. I am delighted to be here. I appreciate you being here. And we’re just gonna get right into it. I have a lot on my mind right now. And I bet you do too. So we can find a way to connect about what is on our minds. How about that?
Kymberlee della Luce 1:01
So I’m going to start with a poem that I wrote a couple years ago. It really frames the texture of this episode. It’s a ghazal, and it is called Calcified Naivete.
Kymberlee della Luce 1:18
Living inside the braided folds just for today. Tangled roots whisper I can’t hear what they say. Memories are a splinter in the eye. Promises broken become calcified naivete. Black Swan Slippery like mercury, haunting a life lived well is not a parley. Water ceasing to hydrate what is crumbling, silt becomes an urn for Ashes someday. Days are shorter as darkness encroaches, morning sweeter with precious days. As civilization collapses under its own weight, we desperately need you to disobey.
Kymberlee della Luce 2:10
So today, I thought we could have a little conversation about classism, and bro culture. Two of my favorite things to rant about–just asked my progeny. I mentioned this because last night, we watched a movie called The Social Network, which is about how Facebook came to be. And it’s, it’s really timely for me. I’m leaving Facebook by the end of this year. And I’ve been on there since almost the beginning, not the beginning, beginning, but I’ve been on there for a long time. And really just thinking about, you know, what it has brought me and what have I brought through that medium? How, you know what, like, what’s the reason for for leaving? I’m leaving, because I think it’s toxic.
Kymberlee della Luce 3:11
Not the people that I’ve met on Facebook, but (well, maybe some of them if we’re honest), um, but no, it’s it’s that IT is. It was created, apparently, from a place of hacking and a place of, you know, like stalking women and, and having vengeful feelings about women. Wow, Mark Zuckerberg, that’s quite a story! But you know, I don’t think it’s changed that much is the problem. There’s, there’s still a lot of hacking, right? And there’s this, there’s a chilling line in the film, where one of the characters–Oh… it’s the guy that plays… It’s Sean Parker. He says, you know, “we used to live in cities. And we used to live in a city, we used to live in cities, and we used to live in the country. And in the future, we’re going to live on the internet.” And I just think that’s an interesting thing to say. And it’s interesting how much that’s the vision that still exists out there for you know, humanity, a vision created from a bunch of broskis. In, you know, in college, who, who were, you know, like sort of riding this wave, I don’t know, of testosterone? I don’t know, like, I don’t know what their deal was, but the movie was very good.
Kymberlee della Luce 4:46
By the way. I recommend that especially right now, as Zuckerberg wants to head us into the metaverse and we have all of these these dudes saying, “you know, like, this is how it’s gonna be, we’re gonna do this,” and I just I find myself wondering about everyone else, and what they think and what I think. So, here we are. So I’m leaving Facebook by the end of the year, I’m not going to miss it. I do hope to stay connected people, but it isn’t, I don’t want it. I don’t like the idea of my data being sold. I don’t like the idea of someone who has all of this economic and social power, you know, making decisions and assuming that it’s a foregone conclusion, right? Assuming that, [spoken in “dude” voice] “you know, hey, yeah, man. I mean, like, that’s what it’s gonna be like, Dude, you know, like, we’re gonna, like, just connect, you know, over…”.
Kymberlee della Luce 4:47
I don’t know, I don’t know what that voice is. I’m sure they don’t speak like that. But the idea that we are just gonna, you know, lay down and and, you know, become, I don’t know, what– minions of this world. And it doesn’t feel like an invitation. Right? It feels, like we’re being forced into something that I don’t think is particularly healthy. So there you go.
Kymberlee della Luce 6:15
And along those lines, I want to talk a little bit about someone that.. so there’s a person that I have been inspired by, in many ways. His name is Tim Ferriss, and you know, he, he has a really famous podcast, I probably wouldn’t even be doing this if I hadn’t listened to his podcast a few times, and been inspired in myriad ways. So not trying to throw Tim Ferriss under the bus. But I do want to say that there’s a way of thinking, in in particularly, I would say, the patriarchal way of thinking it’s, like a white male, cis het privileged kind of point of view that,” yeah, I mean, you know, we’ve created these things, and, and they’re so good. And, you know, they’re just going to help humanity.”
Kymberlee della Luce 7:07
And there seems to be a real lack a real lack of awareness of what’s actually happening for like everyone else, it’s like Seinfeld said, you know, a holiday called “Festivus, for the rest of us.” I feel like that’s kind of where I’m coming from, right? Like, this podcast, and my work is kind of about like, well, let’s talk about the rest of us, the people who don’t want to bowl over others, or just stomp on, you know, skulls to get where we want to go. And so yeah, Tim to back to Tim Ferriss, Tim Ferriss, on his website has a page of apps that have been really useful for him. And he talks about Uber and how, you know, Uber is saved as I’m this is, by the way, this is not a direct quote, but it’s something along the lines of Uber has saved my life lots of times, and are saved my ass. I think that he said, Uber saved my ass a lot of times. And it’s, you know, like, why have a car when you can, you know, just use Uber, like, you know, why have the insurance and the, you know, the upkeep and, you know, the car payments, you know, when you can just do this?
Kymberlee della Luce 8:23
Wow. Why? What about the Uber drivers? Right? What about the people who need to do that to support their families? Right? It seems like there’s a real lack of awareness of, you know, what, what’s on the other end, right? Of, of these decisions of these apps? Again, I once heard Tim Ferriss talk about how he was really fond of ice baths and how I think he used something like Instacart to have someone deliver a bathtub full of ice to him. And I don’t know that, to me, that just feels like kind of gross. “Like, yeah, I mean, [spoken in dude voice] I have the money and the power and the privilege to have things delivered to me to have people cart me around. And, you know, I mean, isn’t it great for me, like, Dude, this is so good.”
Kymberlee della Luce 9:21
And that’s what it feels like has been happening. That’s what’s been kind of getting pumped out of Silicon Valley. And it just, you know, it just doesn’t sit right with me. So here I am talking about it. I wonder what you think about these various things that that are made to make our lives easier, have been created to, quote “make our lives easier”, but don’t seem to be made with an awareness of who’s making these things and what’s on the other side of our convenience, right.
Kymberlee della Luce 9:55
And it just feels really poignant to to sort of, like right now, this particular moment when we have like the great resignation happening, but we still have a lot of people that are really suffering in the world, we have people who are struggling to make ends meet. And, you know, the economy is constantly talked about, but the economy is–the economy, as we know it–has been created for and by white men to serve them. And so everyone else serving them seems to be not a problem for them. I can see why. In another episode of in a future episode, I’m going to talk about donut economics. So you can look forward to that. But right now, I just want to stay kind of contained within this, this topic of how bro culture seems to be kind of predicated on an idea that LOOK AT US, WE’RE MAKING THINGS TO COOL AND CONVENIENT. But that doesn’t, there’s not a lot of accountability coming in.
Kymberlee della Luce 11:16
One of my favorite people to follow is Robert Reich. I mean, Bernie Sanders, for sure seems to get it. Robert Reich also seems to get it. And, you know, he’s busy holding Elon Musk and other billionaires accountable, or trying to, right, he’s trying to stay connected to the idea that we need to be, you know, expecting people to pay taxes, right, like, billionaires need to pay taxes, everyone needs to pay taxes, but the way that billionaires get away with not paying taxes is pretty problematic. I would say. [Singing soulfully] “It’s pretty problematic, pretty problematic wouldn’t you say, hey hey.” Maybe I’ll write a song like that. [Singing]”…is pretty problematic. Hey, hey, hey-a-yay-yay. ” Mostly, when I get a microphone in front of my mouth, I just want to sing so, there you go.
Kymberlee della Luce 12:19
Somebody that really inspires me is bell hooks. She is a scholar and a writer. And she writes a lot about liberation from privilege and liberation from oppression. But she does it from a perspective of being really steeped in love and care. And that’s what I hope to continue to talk about. On this podcast. And in my work, in general. How do we create a better world that’s, you know, steeped in care without, uh, without throwing people, you know, under the bus? That’s such a gross expression, isn’t it? I need to think of a better one. Hmmm…without demonizing other people, to keep their humanity and our humanity like in, in our front vision, and leave the you know, leave the other stuff behind. To, how to not be naive about what’s happening, to call it out, to create a new way of being and to bring healing and, you know, some connectivity back into the world. I think that technology can be an excellent tool for our growth, for our connection for our workforce, for sure, for our convenience, I mean, there’s nothing wrong with some innovation, but we have to be considering the whole system within that. So back to bell hooks, and her book, “All About Love”, which I think is a great title.
Kymberlee della Luce 13:56
She talks about how much affirmations help her to stay connected to her spirit to her soul. I’m not going to read the whole passage. It is however, on page 56. And I highly recommend reading the book. So she said that her favorite affirmation is: “I’m breaking with old patterns and moving forward with my life.” I’m breaking with old patterns and moving forward with my life. I like this affirmation, because it’s very transpersonal right? When I say it, I can get connected, reconnected with my future with my dreams with what I what I want to create in the world, but I also can hold a larger vision for humanity. Right?
Kymberlee della Luce 14:40
And we all currently are breaking old patterns. It’s happening everywhere, fortunately, but there’s a lot, you know, like there’s still this this calcified–like I said calcified naivete—this, this clinging to these old patterns to these old systems that just really aren’t serving us. So we have to be careful of denial and avoidance. Right now. We, there’s so there’s so much, you know, denying that the truth that there are people suffering, and like detaching so much from that suffering that we don’t work to make things better. And, you know, for me personally, I’ve been, you know, connecting with the part of me that wants to make things better. And that’s okay. Right? Like, then I tried to do it without being too terribly dogmatic. But you know, like, sometimes you got to, you know, hold on to your, your, your ideals, right? But but not in a way that, that just, you know, like, ignores the problems, right? Like, I’ve been trying to educate myself about business and marketing, for the last, you know, couple years really, and working with a business coach, and, you know, learning about how to take my work and my ideas out into the world in a bigger way, and, you know, make money doing it. And I’ve just never been very materialistic. I’ve never been oriented that way. And it shows. [laughing] And I need to work on that, I’ve discovered, but along the way, again, I keep bumping into people, teachers, who are just oblivious to what’s going on for other people. There’s a business coach that I’m not going to say his name, because, you know, I think he’s a decent dude and everything. But he, you know, he’s written some books–I’m taking this little email class of his. And today, in today’s lesson, he was talking about how he was talking about [Laughing] how, you know, [Speaking in lower voice] “I’m not going to talk about integrity, because integrity is just something that we do and people who don’t have integrity. Well, there’s a place for people who don’t live with integrity, it’s called prison.”
Kymberlee della Luce 17:08
[Laughing] I was like, wow, that’s just not true. Right? Like, there’s a place for people who don’t have integrity. It’s called big business. It’s called the government, it’s called politics. There are a lot of people who are not acting with integrity right now. And our planet is hurting because of it. Those people are not in prison, they are financially abundant. And, you know, that kind of bullshit drives me crazy. And it’s just, I I’m working on like, not letting it like, ruffle my feathers too much. But also being aware, like, you know, when I got a divorce, right, I left my marriage. And, and, yeah, it financially wasn’t so great for me, because we live in a world that supports male dominance, that the legal system is not set up for care–for caring and sharing. It just isn’t and I’m not going to drag all that past into this moment. But I do want to say that, you know, having a co parent having him just be so like, oblivious to the fact that, in order for me to move forward, I needed to have childcare. And his obstinate denial of that truth has been a consistent pain point in my life. And the obstinate denial of that truth is everywhere, it is everywhere. And even women, right? Women often don’t really see that because you don’t see it until you see it right. And then you can’t unsee it. And being a single mom for many years has really shown me that. So when we talk about breaking patterns, I think about this moment when my daughter was really young, like really like five or something. She and her friend were hitting themselves in the stomach. And just, you know, like, kids do these weird things. Just bam, bam, bam. One of them said, “When I hit myself in the stomach, it hurts.” And I said, “Well, then don’t do that.” [Laughing] And then we all kind of just laughed, and it’s been an ongoing joke that like, you know, well, if that thing is hurting you then don’t do it. Gosh! Wouldn’t it, wouldn’t it be great if it was, if everything was that easy that like, “Oh, you know, if you, if you don’t, if you don’t like economic disparity, then don’t do that. Don’t engage that way.” But that’s that’s not how it works. And if we can’t be honest about that, then things aren’t gonna change, right? So I’m gonna do another song. [Singing soulfully] ” If we can’t be honest about that, and then things won’t change. If we can’t be honest about that, then things won’t change.”
Kymberlee della Luce 20:10
And that’s true for so many things, including bro culture, including creating systems that are not supporting everyone, but are relying on the support of unpaid or almost unpaid labor. And, you know, the, the great resignation is cute. It’s cute. Yeah, it’s good. But it’s it’s leaving out, you know, the everyday workers who absolutely must work in order to pay their bills, and who have, you know, massive student loan debt. That would be me massive student loan debt, by the way. So, still working that out. But there’s a, there’s a really painful system in place, and denying the truth of that, because some of us benefit from that, and others don’t, is really a problem. So what was that? What was that affirmation? Think I’m going to leave. I’m going to stop there. So the affirmation that I am going to end with, I’m going to say it again, from bell hooks, is, ” I’m breaking with old patterns and moving forward with my life.”
Kymberlee della Luce 21:19
So let’s be really clear, I guess, about what that means. I’m breaking with old patterns and moving forward with my life is going to mean, sometimes cataclysmic changes in our own individual lives. I don’t, I don’t like it when people say, oh, you know, yeah, I’m just leaving all these toxic people behind. It’s just so dehumanizing. What if we say, I’m leaving behind my acceptance of people treating me poorly, and of myself treating me poorly? So moving forward, for me, and breaking with old patterns means moving into my best life without, without people using me, right? Like, women especially, are really used. And we’ll be talking more about that. Women are used all the time, especially mothers are just used as free labor, and free emotional labor, and free physical labor. It’s not okay, right? Creating systems where we are all considered in the mix, where everyone is being appreciated, and compensated fairly, takes a lot of work, it is taking a lot of work, it’s going to continue to take a lot of work. And that work is not going to happen without accountability. It just isn’t.
Kymberlee della Luce 22:45
It’s also not going to happen without, you know, kind of flipping over some tables, sometimes like, No, I’m not going to participate in a conversation where I am being abused, I am not going to participate in a family dynamic, where, you know, like, women are in the kitchen and making food and men are out in the living room, you know, [deep, mocking laugh] watching their sport ball, watching sports ball, and, you know, just smoking their cigars, or whatever the hell men do. That these are, see you know, I told you, I rant about this. And I rant about it, because of how often I’ve seen it, and it’s exhausting. You know, there’s an opportunity to fill up my world with people who want to make the world more livable for all of us. And that’s what I’m doing. That’s what this podcast is about. That’s what my work is about. And I hope that you’ll join me, I hope that we can all kind of bust apart the calcified naivete that we have, and, and start, right, you know, living, living fully, and, you know, connecting with one another over something besides likes on Facebook or misery, like there’s so much work to do. There’s so much work to do. And you know, it’s okay, we can do it. We can do this work. It’s fun, it can be fun. The, the current situation isn’t fun, but we can leverage our creativity and our the innovation that’s created and really make something happen, right? I used to tell my kids, technology is a tool, don’t be a tool with technology. And that’s what I have to say to you Mark Zuckerberg and to you Tim Ferriss, to you, you know, anyone who is part of a system that just feels fine with using technology to make life better for yourself on the backs of other people. I just I think it’s time to call it out and to just not participate. So now. There we go.
Kymberlee della Luce 24:55
You know, last week I said that I want to get on my soapbox. my soapbox every now and again, seems like I did it again. It’s fun. But you know what, here’s what I want. I want counterpoints. If you’ve got them, I want to hear your thoughts about this. So if you’re interested, please let me know, on Twitter, just at me right? On Twitter and let me know. Your thoughts. What do you agree with? What do you disagree with? Do you think the metaverse is awesome? Do you…what am I not seeing maybe, right? Or what? What do you you know, what do you agree with? I like discourse, and I like to hear other people’s ideas. It’s weird to be just sort of talking into a microphone and sharing my own ideas. But you know, it’s it’s also kind of cool, because it’s saying the things I want to say.[Laughing] It’s a, it’s, it’s, yeah, it’s but it’s kind of, there’s like the, you know, you don’t want to just be talking to yourself all day. So I’d love to hear your ideas. So @kdellaluce on, on Twitter, so that’s @ K D as in dog, as in divine [Laughing] K D E L L A L U C E, @kdellaluce on Twitter, let me know!
Kymberlee della Luce 26:19
Until next week, I want you to know, I hope you are just having a great time. As you deconstruct the patriarchy.[Laughing] I hope you’re having a great time, celebrating, heading into winter, cozying into the darkness. Or if you’re listening to this, you know, a year from now, I hope whatever you’re doing is pleasurable and bringing you joy, because that’s really, that’s really where it’s at, right? Because the more joyful we are and the more pleasure that we’re experiencing in our lives. The more connectivity the more real we can be. And the more we can connect with you know, with our souls we can be embodied and ensouled in life. And you know, that that’s something that we own right like, this is my body. That’s your body. You came here you know to like live in it and experience your senses, at least I did. So I hope you– wherever you are–are getting to do that right now, yeah. So I look forward to next week, to talking to you. I look forward to hearing from you on Twitter. And yeah, until then. [Outro groove music]
Unbridled Expression with Kymberlee della Luce is designed to stimulate and entertain you. Chocked full of thoughts, stories, questions, and advice on topics including everything from creativity, culture and relationships to the experience of being an unbridled woman and artist, it’s intimate, raw, and decidedly unbridled. New episodes every Wednesday (because, Mercury). Kymberlee truly hopes it ends up on your Spotify wrapped as your favorite podcast. Feel to reach out to her on Twitter or drop a comment below. To listen to any of the past episodes for free, visit this page.